Joyce: Yes. Back in 2008, my husband had a stroke before that and I was having to cut down my hours. My sister said “Let’s do this,” and we jumped in with both feet. It was the saving grace having an income, because I wasn’t working in the field as much. So legal nurse consulting was a saving grace for me.

Vickie: What’s great about that, it allowed you to be at home and be more available.

Joyce: Absolutely. I could work at night once he was in bed and safe, and then I was good to go. So it worked out perfectly.

Vickie: I know that you focus primarily on personal injury (PI) cases. What types of PI cases do you handle?

Joyce: Living in Arizona, there’s a lot of auto accident cases. There was a bus injury case where somebody got off the bus and the door closed before she was even off the bus. I had a motor vehicle accident with a horse.

Vickie: Oh wow, that’s an interesting one.

Joyce: That was very interesting when I got that one. That one was a fun case. I do motorcycle cases. I’ve done sexual assault. I’ve done products liability. So, there’s a lot of room for the CLNC consultant in this in this specialty.

Vickie: Absolutely. So much variety, even within each category. Within personal injury you just gave a lot of great examples. So when you’re working on these personal injury cases, can you talk specifically about what you’re doing for these attorneys? What are the services you’re providing to them?

Joyce: At first, I thought the CLNC consultant just did the medical review. However, over the course of my years of experience, that’s just the basic part of it. I have attended litigation. I’ve attended IMEs (independent medical exams) for the attorney. The biggest thing that one of my clients likes is when I do a personal interview with the actual client. Because sometimes you get a case and it’s already a year past of what you’ve already put into the work. So that’s one step that the CLNC consultant really needs to focus on – to tell the attorney what you can do and how.

Vickie: And that’s such a great comment because they don’t always know what you can do. And with the interview, I agree with you, no one on that litigation team knows the kinds of questions to ask a client the way a nurse would be able to.

Joyce: Exactly. And now I have paralegals on board and so when it comes to this, they’ll go, “Joyce would you call and just do that interview?” And it’ll be surprising because a year later, they’ve been to more doctors, they’ve seen more specialists, they’ve had more pain and you really want to get into the guts of it because some of them will say, “Well I’m okay” but they really mean, “I’ve adjusted” and you need to pull out what it is they’ve had to make adjustments for because of the accident. The attorneys say, “Wow this is great” because they take that into litigation with them and go, “This person is not fine.”

Vickie: Another excellent point. They may be “Okay,” but their life is different.

Joyce: Their life is so different. Not only for them, but for their spouses and children. I bring all of that into my report.

Vickie: When you and I talked off camera you shared that you’ve been working with one attorney for 15 years and he’ll say “Hey Joyce, I need you to work your magic.” What exactly does he mean when he says, “Work your magic”?

Joyce: Because of the years that I’ve worked with him and when I first started, I fed him a little bit of extra information. I would put in a graph, I would put in pictures when I do the report, because they don’t know what a normal physiological piece of that puzzle is. So I put the picture in and I put what the injury is and I give them all of that information because then, they can visually see where the problems are that they have. I’ve created my own template and everything for that. I also give them a list of medical terminology because the paralegals and a lot of the people who get that report have no idea. So he really likes that.

Vickie: So working your magic is really helping that attorney to see the case visually and to understand every aspect of that case.

Joyce: Understand it all and where it all comes from. And you really have to know and tell that attorney, “This is what you need, these are the records that you’re missing and this is vital to your case.”

Vickie: You’ve had as many as eight cases at the same time. When that’s happening, what kind of strategies do you employ to manage that case load?

Joyce: I ask, “How important is this and how soon do you need it done?” That’s where I begin. I also keep a tickler file so when I have done the preliminary to the report, I know what records are missing. Then I can contact them and say “Did these records come in?” Again, you’re procuring more work for yourself, because once they come in they want you to add them and update your records.

Vickie: The key starts with communication, first, with the attorney about deadlines and second, communicating with yourself about communicating back and forth with the attorney.

Joyce: Exactly, and all of them are probably not active at the same time. They’re in various stages, so you really have to know where you’re at. The paralegal is vital.

Vickie: You’re bringing up a really good point – When you’re working on eight cases at a time, things are happening at different intervals and they’re not all at the same stage necessarily. But this is one of the reasons why being self-motivated and being disciplined is so important. For example, maybe you don’t have a hardcore deadline today, it doesn’t mean, “Oh, I don’t have to worry about anything.” This is when you want to get in and jump ahead on the cases that you can jump ahead on. Because you know I always say “I wake up with a plan and by 9:00 am it’s busted”. You may think you have tomorrow to work on that case and then tomorrow something erupts.

Joyce: And then tomorrow something else will come in, or he’ll call on a case that has been worked on and say, “Look, I need this information put in now.” and with all the attorneys, it’s now, if not sooner, if not yesterday.

Vickie: So that’s an important management strategy for sure.

Joyce: Yes, it is.

Vickie: I know that you also do presentations for both attorneys and paralegals and it’s a great way to stay in touch with them. It’s a great way to retie connections. It’s even a great way to market your business to new attorneys. Can you expand on that – what you do and any recommendations you have for other Certified Legal Nurse Consultants?

Joyce: One thing I like is teaching and I think that’s innate in most nurses because that’s what we do a lot of. I ask them, “What is lacking in your area? What would you like your paralegals to know more about?” Or I offer suggestions and offer to do a presentation during a lunch hour for them. They’ve often jumped on that.

Vickie: Would you say this benefits you? In other words, does it get you business with new attorneys or repeat business with an existing attorney-client?

Joyce: It gets me repeat business and it also gets the paralegal going, “Well maybe she can do this for me. Maybe she can do that for me.”

Vickie: Joyce, how is being an independent consultant different than working inside of a healthcare system as an employee?

Joyce: It is night and day because I make my own hours. I work when I want to, I don’t have the politics and I set my own standards which are quite high. But that’s what the attorney expects and they know that your work ethic is great and above most of the people that they work with. That’ll get you business.

Vickie: It does sound like you get a lot of repeat business.

Joyce: I do. I have about four attorneys now that I work mainly with, because by rights I should be retired, but I don’t want to retire.

Vickie: I don’t blame you, I completely appreciate that.

Joyce: Yes. I never had a job where I was like I don’t want to retire. This is just too much fun.

Vickie: Joyce, what is your definition of success?

Joyce: My definition of success is being able to retire, but not wanting to.

Vickie: I love it.

Joyce: Exactly and they always ask, “What is your elevator speech?” Mine is, “I’m the CSI of the medical record.” And they go, “What do you mean?” I say, “Comprehensive streamlining of information. I take all your information and put it together.” But success is definitely doing what you want to do and enjoying it and being successful at it. It has changed my confidence level because I think if I’m successful, I am. So you have to believe in what you do and you have to promote your value.

Vickie: That’s a great definition of success and since your definition of success is being able to retire, but never wanting to retire, I wish for you that you never retire

Joyce: I hope I can do this a long time.

Vickie: Great success to you.

Joyce: I enjoy it and I would love to do that. Thank you very much.

Vickie: Thank you so much.

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